Tuesday, December 18, 2012

Feminism and the D/s Relationship...

I have been gone for a little over a week and I have missed you all so!  Between illness, children, internet issues, and more, my presence here has been a little spotty.  But I am back now and feel that there is something I need to address.

I have just responded to a comment on my post One Dom's Outlook with the longest comment I believe I have ever made on a blog in my life.  While I was gone, someone from one of the forums that I am a member of made a comment on this post anonymously ( I KNEW I should have disabled anonymous comments!), which drives me crazy.  If you feel strongly enough about a subject to comment on it, then you should be man (or woman) enough to stand behind it proudly, name and all!  While many of us use nicknames or pseudonyms on the internet, at least we use them!  Am I the only one who finds it cowardly to post argumentative, slightly inflammatory comments on someone's blog while hiding behind the "anonymous" banner?

However, that is the smallest thing about this comment that bothered me.  The bigger issue is that he/she (I gathered the impression that it was a she) completely (perhaps intentionally?) overlooked the true meaning behind the post and simply attacked BD's statements about feminism.  Therefore, after addressing it in my reply to him/her, I felt the need to discuss it here as well.  

BD did make the statement that feminism/women's lib has robbed women of their place.  Perhaps, due to the fact that he was originally addressing me in this conversation and not the entire world of the internet, he did not explain himself as fully as he would have had he known ahead of time that I was going to use his statements in my blog.  I know where he was going with this statement, because he and I have had this discussion many times before.  He is not in any way saying that every woman's place is in the home (or as dear anonymous stated, "under their husband's heel/belt.").  He is stating that we have been robbed of the choice to be the kind of women our grandmothers were.  Feminism has taught women that we are equal to (although sometimes it has gone as far as to say "better than") men in all areas of life and that we should fight tooth and nail to be able to do all things that men do.  It has taught us that NOT wanting that is wrong.  Perhaps this was not the original goal, but it has become the societal outcome.  Before feminism got a toe-hold, women who wanted to work in typically male oriented fields were ridiculed and even assaulted for their desires.  While there are a great number of women throughout history who have flaunted convention successfully, there are an equal number who have been devastatingly punished for their audacity.  It seems the tables have turned, and now we are ridiculed if we don't want to be "the breadwinners, the Alpha Female, the ball-buster, because feminism has "given" us all the right to do that, along with the expectation that that is what we should want and something is wrong with us if we don't want it."  (I put this in quotations, not because I didn't write it, but because it is a direct quote from  my reply to the comment from anonymous.)

I believe in equality between the sexes, but I believe in it in the way it was seen in the middle ages.  I don't know where this phrase comes from originally, because I have seen it in so many places, but it completely sums up how I feel about feminism and it's place in our society:

“Equal in dignity, different in function” 

Women are not made identical to men.  While I wholeheartedly accept the right of any woman in the world do go out and be whoever she wants to be, I do not personally want to be the woman who is known for being able to carry as heavy a load as the men she works with.  I do not personally want to be known as the woman who has killed just as many enemy soldiers as her male counterparts.  I do not personally want to be the woman who is called ruthless in business and has brokered just as many deals as the rest of the guys in the office.  If you do want to be known as one of those women, congratulations on your strength, your bravery, your business acumen, and I truly and sincerely hope for you every happiness to be had in life.  Can't you simply wish me the same, even though my goals are more historically feminine goals? 


  1. Since your post actually addresses to very different point I would like to answer in very different ways.

    First to the issue of anonymous. I would like to offer a different perspective and in doing so I hope you will re think disabling that option. While it is true that being anonymous can be an issue of cowardice that is just one reason. For many it is an issue of fear and I know you are thinking yes they are afraid and then they act like a coward and I would like to suggest the acting is in fact the first step to over coming the fear. The true coward would have said nothing. I believe sometimes the act of replying at all is the beginning of over coming the fear. Sure for some people the are just ignorant and rude and that it was delete is for but for many others in my experience they start out anon and as they gain confidence and a voice they come out is it were. It would seem a shame to limit this growth especially regarding a post about rights.

    Secondly on feminism, I agree with all you said and would take it just this one step further. when we talk about all peoples right to be the deal maker or not, the bread winner or not and so on then we will get past a need for concepts like feminism and perhaps get to a place where we can all just be.

    1. Sir J,

      I wholeheartedly agree with you on the anonymous issue (or I DID till I got that comment, lol!) and that is why I left anonymous comments enabled. But come on, at least sign a name of some sort to your comment, so that I have a way to address you. ANY name! *sigh* Just a pet peeve, I guess. I am leaving the anonymous comments on....grrr.

      I agree with you, here, too. If people were concerned about what THEY were doing and not what WE are doing, and everyone allowed everyone else to be who they are and want to be (within the letter of the law), life would be so much easier for so many.

      As always, thanks for your comment, Sir J. I always love to see your name in my comment list! Which reminds me...I need to head over to your blog and see what's going on over there!

  2. I agree with you on ALL points. Feminism to me, is the right to choose. That's all. To choose whether or not be a mom. To choose whether or not to work outside the home. Whether or not to be a stay home Mom or go back to work... The right to CHOOSE MY LIFE and how *I* want to live it... Feminism is the right and safety to truly KNOW MYSELF and be able to CHOOSE what makes me happy. Feminism is NOT about ball busting, and being aggressive. It is about embracing women as whatever and whoever they are. My decision to be a stay at home Mom while my kids are little (and maybe even after that) has nothing to do with me 'knowing my place' or feeling as though my Husband should be the bread winner. (He is though, and I feel so blessed that I have that choice, and CAN follow my instincts and feelings about my life)It is about my own personal life journey.. And if I can choose that then I am infitely powerful. THAT is what feminism is to me. The strength to do what is now considered 'out of time'. Because I know myself, accept myself and know I deserve to be happy NO matter what choices I make, or how I live. Feminism allows me that choice, and anyone who tells me I am pulling or holding 'feminism' back is an idiot. *I* cannot change the feminist movement, I am only one person and not nearly that important. Call me presumptuous but those who fight so damn hard to better than or equal to men and curse other women who don't seem to have some self acceptance problems imo. You don't *have* to be a ball busting, go getter to be a feminist. You just have to know and accept yourself as you are, and choose what makes YOU happy. If that means you are a stay home Mom who is also a submissive wife (hello self), or an A lister CEO with a fortune 500 company then AWESOME. Ive said it a lot already but Feminism is the right to choose my path and that is some HUGE power.

    1. Amen, angel! Choice is what it's all about....what all those women all those years ago BEGAN fighting for in the first place! Not so that every one of us could choose their path, but so that we could CHOOSE at all!

      "Feminism is the right to choose my path and that is some HUGE power."

      I love this! You're awesome! Thanks for commenting!

  3. I allow anonymous comments for the simple reason that it may be easier for people to comment that perhaps dont have a blog etc but genuinly want to say something, i dont object, all i ask for is to be respectful, i dont expect people to agree with me, but unfortunatly as has been shown often its the anon comments that are quite rude really.

    Anyway, absolutley agree with what has been said, im not a feminist but then nor do i think men are better than women, i do think the feminist movement has made it perhaps more difficult for those women that choose to submit to a man but i will stop here or this comment will turn out to be a blog post lol


    1. Tori,

      This is ANOTHER reason I wanted to allow anonymous comments on my blog. And as I said in response to Sir J's comment, I AM going to leave them up. It is just so irritating for someone to be ugly in a comment and leave no name at all. Especially since this person made it a point to let me know that she is a member of a forum I am on.

      I agree, it has made it harder for us to choose submission. But that just makes us stronger for being able to make the choice.

      LOL, I love long comments, so feel free to just post away!!!

      Thanks for commenting!

  4. What HLA said - feminism supports a woman's right to choose WHATEVER she may wish to be. :) A lifelong single woman who works on her career? Yep. A stay-at-home wife and mother? Yep. A successful CEO mom who is also sexually submissive? Sounds exhausting to me, but go for it!

    I keep anonymous comments on since several people don't feel like creating an entire online identity just to comment on my blog. (like my husband, for example!) But I totally understand the rationale of those who choose not to. I always prefer a signature of some sort, though.

    1. Exactly, Conina! It's all about the choice! I am all for them making the choice they want, I just want the same respect in return. CEO AND submissive??? I'm exhausted just READING those words! LOL!

      Yes, a signature would have been great, since she made sure to let me know that I interact with her in the forum. It's not like the name of my blog leaves a lot of room for curiosity, you know? It's pretty obvious what the blog is about, so if the subject disturbs her, why come read it, just to post anonymously with no way for me to even know if she had the courtesy of coming back to read my response. I have no problem discussing my lifestyle, my beliefs, but there can be no discussion if only one person is open to it.....not counting the conversations I have with myself on a regular basis, lol!

      Thanks for reading and for commenting! I LOVE seeing new people reading!

  5. It's me, the infamous "anonymous." I don't ever use my real name on line because it is unsafe to do so, not because I am a coward. (No one here uses her or his real name, including you, for obvious reasons.) I haven't figured out how to register a nickname without giving up too much personal info, which I am very reluctant to do.
    What surprises me is your defensiveness about my comment. There was no nastiness in it, no putting you down for your choices. My disagreement was directed at your dom's feeling that somehow feminism has robbed women of their true place, which apparently to him means subservient to a man. The core of true feminism is the freedom for all women to live life as they choose, period. You are free to live a D/s lifestyle and I see nothing wrong with that and said so in my original comment. (I also wrote that the backlash against stay-at-home moms that occurred in the past was a terrible thing.) But I'm tired of hearing people use feminism as a scapegoat for whatever they think is wrong with society. It is a bum rap. In truth, feminism has helped bring about alot more good for women than bad.

    1. I understand your not wanting to use your real name (although, in my defense, my real name IS Cassaundra), and believe me I understand that it is safer to NOT use personal details...and how complicated it can be to fill out profiles online without giving too much of that away...not to mention, since Google+ hooked up with blogger, things are much more complicated, lol. What I do not understand is that you don't even sign a name (any name...even your literotica name) at the bottom of the comment so that I can have something to address you by or even know who you happen to be in the Literotica forums. If I interact with you there, it would be nice to know who you are.

      But that is not the point. You say I am defensive in my response to your other comment, and perhaps I am. My initial, from the gut response to this statement was "I am SOOO not being DEFENSIVE!"...but then I reread everything that has been said, and I admit that I am, in part, defending myself from your comments. You say that there was no nastiness in your comment, or any putting me down, but that is not really true, now is it? Perhaps your word choice is not derogatory, but the manner in which you say those words is.

      "please don't try to tell me that feminism has robbed women of "their place"--especially since you think their place is under their husbands' heel/belt."

      That is a direct quote from your previous comment. That sounds pretty nasty to me, especially since I have never said anything of the sort. And you exhibit the same kind of nastiness in this comment:

      "your dom's feeling that somehow feminism has robbed women of their true place, which apparently to him means subservient to a man."

      Again, the word CHOICE is fairly innocent....the connotation, however, is pretty ugly, not to mention unfair, as you don't know him or me. I feel, honestly, that you have not even made the effort to understand what he is saying in that post, nor what I have said in this one...which I must say baffles me, because you CHOSE to come here, you CHOSE to read it, and you CHOSE to come back, so my obvious conclusion is that you have also CHOSEN to deliberately misconstrue what is being said here.

      I will give you points for admitting (in both comments) that feminism did have a horrible backlash for those who wished to stay home....your flaw is in believing that that backlash ended in the past. It is still going on every day. Perhaps that is another reason for my defensiveness.

      I think you missed a few key points in BD's statement. How about: "Very few are strong enough to take back their role as homemaker, much less to become a true submissive. People mistakenly think a Dominant doesn't respect his submissive? Hell, a true Dominant is in awe of the strength and power his submissive must have to be able to submit." or: "I want to stress to you that I do not love you because you are submissive (well, not just because you are, anyway), but it does seem to fit that missing puzzle piece I never knew I needed perfectly. I want you to always know that I respect and appreciate what a huge gift your submission is to me." These things seem to have been overlooked by you in your efforts to find something "wrong" with his comments.